Hot and Bothered

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Remodelers, what do you think about lead-generating companies – speaking broadly, the multimillion-dollar industry of the likes of ServiceMagic, Angie’s List, and so many others that claim to (and often do, say many remodelers) match “qualified” and/or “pre-screened” homeowners with contractors, usually at a cost to the latter?

A) Indispensable marketing tools;

B) Shams that take advantage of homeowners and contractors alike;

C) Something in between, depending on the type of work you do, the type of leads you want, the LGCs you use, and how aggressively you go after the leads they deliver.

Lately, the topic of LGCs has been steaming up the remodeling discussion boards on professional networking sites. Most remodelers that have used the services do seem to have pretty strong opinions about them. For instance, of the 266 comments (so far) in a LinkedIn thread about “the unscrupulous tactics of lead generation companies,” here are a few excerpts:

  • “…lead generation companies are the new telemarketers of our time…” 
  • “… good ROI from a lead generation company is an old wives’ tale….” 
  • “… we have tried lead generation companies before and they weren't for us. Were we mad at them? No. I was mad at myself for spending the money….”

I can’t say that there’s one easy answer to my question above. I’ve written about LGCs in the past, and it’s a topic that is sprawling and may be virtually inexhaustible. (Anyone have a good friend at 60 Minutes who can give the industry full investigative scrutiny?) In the meantime…

Ringing Off the Wrong Hook

One remodeler who IS frustrated by LGCs, for a few reasons, told me some of his experiences using them. Two anecdotes:

1. Fairly affluent older homeowners, a doctor and his wife, began their major remodeling project with a large LGC. Using the automated system, the couple checked most of the "boxes" for the different types of projects for which the service provides leads – bathrooms, kitchen, addition, countertops, cabinets – because their big project would encompass all those types of work.

“Within 24 hours, they were getting hundreds of calls” from contractors that the LGC had sold their lead to, my source told me. “They couldn’t answer their phone for a month.” That poor couple, the remodeler speculated, probably generated up to $5,000 in leads (paid by those scrambling contractors) for the LGC.

2. Curious about how much screening LGCs really do, this same remodeler pretended to be a homeowner in need of a remodeler. He contacted a large  LGC (one that his own company had signed up to receive leads from) with “a bad lead, something like $20,000 for a second-story addition.”

Within a half-hour, his remodeling company got a call from that very same LGC about that very same impossibly unqualified lead. “I think they sold it to seven to nine other contractors too,” he said.

Investing in Education

This remodeler doesn’t much care for the LGCs with which he’s dealt, clearly, but he feels that in this economy he needs to have as many feelers out as possible. His experiences make a reasonable case for all remodelers to closely examine how and whether to invest marketing dollars in the services.

Some remodelers say poor LGC results are just a risk of bargaining for good LGC results. And that LGCs are simply better-suited to specialty contractors and small projects than to full-service and/or design/build companies.

And others say the solution is to invest more effort and marketing dollars in doing really good work for your existing client base, educating them about the value of your service, and asking them for referrals, to the extent that your excellent professional relationship perpetuates personal referrals, community-wide goodwill, and a steady book of business.

Take this comment, from another remodeler on that LinkedIn thread:

Remodelers should learn “how to build healthy companies with solid referral bases so they don't even need to acknowledge the existence of [LGSs]. Stay true to the mission: Education, education, education….  Lead generation companies hardly register in my consciousness....never used 'em...never will.”

Said another, in an email to me yesterday:

"In my mind, if we educate people and they make an informed choice, unless they are prone to self-mutilation, they should make the best choice for themselves." 

What about you, remodelers? What’s your advice to other remodelers on using LGCs cost-effectively in these marketing-critical times? Or on getting really good referrals the old-fashioned way? Be constructive on this public forum, please. What's worked for you?

Post your comments here. Or email me directly at lthayer@hanleywood.com.

Leah Thayer, senior editor

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    Comments (16 Total)

    • Posted by: alright george | Time: 2:49 PM Sunday, June 21, 2009

      I have used angie's list for 2and 1/2 year at a cost to 3000 a year. The customers I get call me after seeing the reveiws of other customers. Just like refferals. I then get word of mouth refferals from relatives and freinds indirectly. I don't feel they give me any extras for my money, but they have been a winner so far. My rating could be affected if I get a cazy customer. I try my best and use my expereince to qaulify them before work begins.

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 1:41 PM Thursday, June 18, 2009

      This is funny in a sad way. A couple of months ago I was contacted by an LGS. The usual spiel, we have customers that can't find a contractor, or can you handle more work? My story. I told them I lost my license for taking down payments and not doing the work and I was now under house arrest, I then told them the electronic bracelet came off in 60 days and I could sure use some leads so I could get some down payments and get back into making money. I said I couldn't get re-licensed but that didn't matter because I knew what I was doing. They offered to sign me up right then and there, with the option of turning my leads off until my electronic bracelet was removed. I said call back in 60 days. But they insisted I should sign up right away to get into large quantity of leads going begging for contractors.I told them again I was a convicted felon and a crooked contractor, the person just laughed and said "we all deserve another chance". Paul Lesieur-Silvertree Construction

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    • Posted by: Tim at ConstructionDeal.com | Time: 10:39 AM Thursday, June 18, 2009

      As a representative of one of the online lead generation companies, I understand that many contractors are frustrated by past experiences with some of these services. We've had a few complaints about our business - no company make everyone happy - but we've also satisfied a whole lot of service pros. It's how we stay in business. Our goal is help contractors succeed, not to take their money. If they succeed, we do as well. The system of lead generation is not perfect but I would love to know how we could improve it. I am always willing to find out how we can act as a marketing and advertising company for contractors, to get them more leads and more business. If you're willing to give me your ideas, I'm willing to try to implement them to improve the industry - starting with our company. Comment here or email me at Tim (at) ConstructionDeal (dot) com

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 10:37 AM Thursday, June 18, 2009

      www.hireitdone.com is a LGC "hybrid". I agree with a lot of the comments on this thread regarding LGC's not being ethical nor practicing what they preach. I am a CR,CGR BIG 50, COTY (multiple x's) winner and NAHB Quality GOLD Award winner. Now i own www.hireitdone.com which is a lead referral company. I do all the prescreening and turn down 90% of the contractors that apply. They are required to advertise with my radio show to get leads. My leads are given to 4 contractors per category (ie:roofing gets only 4 contractors allowed to get roof leads). I do not charge per lead and only market to homeowners thru RADIO. I do not do any SEO or PPC (pay per click). I undertand homeowners and remodelers and my systme works and it works well. We processed over 10,000 leads in 2008 and this is in the Detroit marketplace. I have an 85% renewal rate for my contractors and for the most part we have a good system. I still have the same problems other LGC's have, like homeowners requesting work and then not returning our phone calls. Almost EQUALLY i get contractors putting in requests just to see who will respond. The best part is the ARROGANT D/B contractors who think they dont need a "legitimate" lead referral company or think they are too good for them. I get big projects that go to my guys over the D/B contractors that live in a bubble of 100% referral busines. Our economy has changed drastically here in Detroit Michigan (i am speaking for Detroit Metro only). I know these contractors and they are resistant to change. I know the remodeling business and perhaps thats why i am successful at lead generation. Not sure but just like any business competition is good. I love to compete against Service Magic and Angie's List. Very easy to overcome the first question i get form contractors: "we tried Service Magic and the leads stunk!" LOL Adam Helfman

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    • Posted by: Cheryl Reed | Time: 9:00 AM Thursday, June 18, 2009

      Angie’s List here, chiming in. We appreciate the discussion but wanted to be clear that we’re not a lead generating company. Angie’s List collects the real-life experiences homeowners have with service professionals as a means for consumers to research how local companies provide customer service and expertise in their area of specialty. Service professionals cannot add themselves to Angie’s List – they’re only there after a customer has used their services and then reported to Angie’s List about the experience. Once a company or service professional is added to Angie’s List, we notify that company or professional to alert them to the report and encourage them to register FREE OF CHARGE to see the report, track any future reports and respond to them if they so choose – all FREE OF CHARGE. Service professionals who earn and MAINTAIN an overall grade of B or higher (members grade on an A-F scale, just like school) are invited to advertise their service. Those that do are required to offer a discount, and if they lose their B or higher grade, the advertising is removed. While many, many companies have told us they’ve gotten a lot of business as a result of positive comments posted by their customers on Angie’s List, many have also never advertised with us – relying only on the reputation they build on Angie’s List and maintain by providing quality work to our members. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

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    • Posted by: S | Time: 6:10 PM Wednesday, June 17, 2009

      I tried a comapny for about six months, found out each lead was given to 7 other guys. also if you didn't call the customer in the first half hour they may have talked to too many people already, but you still got charged for the lead. Affordablebath cleveland,O

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    • Posted by: George | Time: 4:17 PM Wednesday, June 17, 2009

      I used LGC for a year and I think I paid them more than I made off the leads. Out of frustration I reduced the types of leads I wanted to only kitchen remodeling. The next day I got a notice for a lead. A lady wanted the popcorn ceiling scraped and skimmed in her 'kitchen'. Am I stupid or is that defining 'kitchen remodeling'?

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 3:13 PM Wednesday, June 17, 2009

      I had a former remodeling company and now work as a Green Consultant. The new "addition" to these LGC's are the HRN's (the Home Referral Networks) set up as screening and sales generations. They take a "commission" once the job is sold. The caveat is that you are requested to NOT tell the customer about that charge and you will have to recoup it somehow so it gets buried in the markup making the gig another 10-20% higher. Of course you are told to deduct it as a marketing cost, well all costs to the business goes in the overhead and that means either that customer or the rest will have to pay that commission some way. As for their screening its the same old bs. Business for three years, 3 references and that is it. I was contacted by one and she said she wanted me to work with her Contractors or Homeowners whichever asked. I said I charge 105/hr and that most consults were at max 2 hours and did she want that in singles? I never heard from her again. This is the most absurd and tragic thing that came out of this boon. Learning how to sell and market your business and build leads is part of it. Therefore it should be from your business and team not a third party as they have no vested interest in your business and its long term growth and solvency. What is unfortunate is that in Construction there is little collaboration and cooperation. There is so much fear associated with the "other guy" and getting business taken from you thinking he has it that many Contractors are not looking outside the box and building relationships with people like myself, Interior Designers, Landscapers and other trade professionals (other than subs) who would love to develop hunting packs to build all their businesses. Sales is about selling you not beating the other guy, I think we saw how well that worked of late.

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    • Posted by: Joanne | Time: 2:35 PM Wednesday, June 17, 2009

      The LGC's are offering consumers the opportunity to get the best price by having companies pursue them. Most professionals are not selling on price. Therefore, by nature, not a good fit for most. Look at remodelormove.com, product of Service Magic. After you complete a survey, you are informed about getting a great, low price--not in these words exactly, but close. I entered a project for 2 baths, and a kitchen. The estimate of costs for all, 62 or 67K. This sets the anchor price in the consumers mind. This doesn't seem helpful to our industry, and certainly not fair to consumers. In my mind, there is much wrong with the LGC's system.

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    • Posted by: John Sperath | Time: 5:18 PM Saturday, June 13, 2009

      I have been following this thread on LinkedIn as well as here. It's interesting that at the bottom of the blog there are five ads for LGCs. I never have used them but agree with most of the others, the public needs to be made aware of their likely outcome if they sign up.

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    • Posted by: John Sperath | Time: 5:17 PM Saturday, June 13, 2009

      I have been following this thread on LinkedIn as well as here. It's interesting that at the bottom of the blog there are five ads for LGCs. I never have used them but agree with most of the others, the public needs to be made aware of their likely outcome if they sign up.

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 8:43 PM Friday, June 12, 2009

      I think Leah has brought to light all lot of the points that have been addressed during the thread on LI and this article. The bottom line is for the most part remodelers that have been in business for a while have tried LGS' and not been happy for the most part. Our obligation is to educate the rest of the contractor's and the newbies so they don't make the same mistakes (just like you would teach your children). Bottom line - just as your kids will do - these contractors will need to make their own decisions; right or wrong!!!! We need to combat these vipers through education 0 there is no alternative. If they use an LGS they will undoubtedly lose money, have a bad experience or feel abused - in any effect at some point, if they look at the process autonousmly they will determine they are being taken advantage of.

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 6:44 PM Friday, June 12, 2009

      Regardless of whether the LGS's are abusing clients and consumers I would rather opine that since our industry already suffers from unqualified and disreputable pretenders we cannot enforce standards on, lets at least require legitimate companies to follow ethical guidelines when they sell a service to our industry. As far as "Never used em, never will so it's not a problem for me" well I see that as a sad and selfish statement that shows a lack of support for our industry in general. As far as getting people on board to join this discussion, I say bring it on. Paul Lesieur/ Silvertree Construction

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 6:13 PM Friday, June 12, 2009

      I find every LGC I have dealt with to be unethical. They sell their products by making promises they have never delivered on. I've never considered Angie's List to be an LGC, but I do lump them in the same basic category of questionable ethics. Angie's List should take money from homeowners ONLY and stop all the pay to play(by Advertisers) crap and make their service what it is supposed to be: an honest peer review.

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 5:55 PM Friday, June 12, 2009

      With regard to LGC's, I will never use them, again. My experience has been far less than positive. With all of the leads that I purchased over the years, approx. 50, I sold two jobs that produced about $20,000 in revenue. Most leads never even answered their phones within 15 minutes of receiving the leads. The company that I worked with would give credits for bad leads, for a period of time, but then even quit doing that. I have read most of the posts on the LinkedIn discussion, and read all of the buyer beward comments, but regardless, I should have had a much better close ration than 1:25. What have I learned through all of this? Do your own work. If something looks to good to be true, it probably is. We are using a multi-faceted approach to our marketing. We have found a radio station that hits a large portion of our target market. We have a very nice website that shows up on the first page of remodelers in our area. We are involved in our local builders association. We are involved in the local Chambers of Commerce. We have made ourselves available to reporters for quotes on articles that they are running on the industry. We are involved in our local home shows, whether we get a lot of leads or not. In other words, we are out in the marketplace creating our own momentum. Yes it takes time and lots of work. But, my leads are far more qualified than any lead that I ever received from one of the LGC's. My close rate on call in's is about 1:7 and on referrals is 1:2. I will spend my money where it does the most good. Thanks, Leah for opening this thread here. Hopefully it stays along this vein. ;

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    • Posted by: Anonymous | Time: 5:30 PM Friday, June 12, 2009

      I agree with the need to educate homeowners about what a remodeling job takes. The best way to do so is to provide as much information regarding pricing, pictures and reviews from previous customers. When a new customer meet with you after seeing samples of your work and he is aware of your pricing range, there is a better chance he will know and appreciate the difference between a good and bad remodeler.

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    About the Blogger

    Leah Thayer

    thumbnail image Leah was a senior editor for Remodeling magazine from 2004 until June 2010. She is a lifelong fan of small businesses and grew up in a builder family. Prior to joining Remodeling, she wrote for and/or edited extensively for professional audiences, focusing on business management, health care, and marketing. Email: leah.thayer@gmail.com. Twitter: @leahthayer